I thought, you know, it’d be a fun way to get to know this guy.

I’m going to ask him to tell me his favorite joke. Well, he did, and Sam, it was one of the foulest, most offensive jokes I have ever heard. And everybody in the room went dead. Silence. So we just had to kind of actually get through it together. And as soon as the candidate left, all of us who went to H.R. were like, hey, that is not going to be a fit.

But here’s the problem that Matt was just speaking to is that I didn’t know that you can’t just make up questions as you go in the interview process, and it turns out that we actually gotten some serious, complicated issues. But, because that candidate filed some legal complaints against us and, and our process all because my favorite joke question.

This podcast is brought to you by Fast Slow Motion, a team of expert consultants that have helped thousands of growing businesses build scalable systems on the Salesforce and HubSpot platforms. To learn more, visit fastslowmotion.com.

Welcome to the Fast Slow Motion podcast, where we teach you how to build a business you love while enjoying your life. I’m your host, Sam Donaghy, and today we’re doing something a little bit different. We’ve got the three of fast, slow motions leaders John Burdette, Matt Dyar, and Chad Seals for a real conversation about failure, the kind of failure that stings, that teaches you something and ultimately shapes how you lead.

Between the three of them. They’ve helped scale dozens of businesses, but the lessons they’re sharing today didn’t come from success. It came from the moments they got wrong. This episode is all about those hard earned lessons and the safeguards we only seem to put in place after something breaks. Our hope is that sharing these lessons will encourage all of you leaders out there who are listening.

Whether you’re going through some similar struggles right now, or if you end up facing them in the future. We believe that learning from those who have walked in a similar path can really help you as you work to build and grow a business. So let’s jump in. So Matt, good to see you today. I want to start with you and Matt.

You said one of your, you know, your biggest early lessons came from launching a business based on a handshake deal. So there was no contract. There was no clarity. So can you share what happened with that, please? Absolutely. Sam, I’m going to I’m going to take you all the way back to college for just a second. When I was just, a bright eyed kid working hard.

When I was in college, I did a lot of freelance web design and system work for people. And so I had this wonderful opportunity arise with one of my clients. They were, they were a great client, and they were building a web business. And so they gave me the opportunity to come on board. And really, the language that we used when we when we started all this was, hey, let’s partner, let’s partner together and see if we can turn this into a real business.

And so it was nothing when we started. But after a couple of years, we we had a real business on our hands. We were, we were selling product. We were we were growing. And at that point, you know, my, my business partner had basically said, let’s partner up. I had said, let’s partner up. But the problem was, was his interpretation of the word partner was different than my interpretation of the word partner.

So, so fortunately, he was a really good business partner, and we were able to work through all the hiccups that we had, but we had some really difficult conversations there for a couple of months about how to move forward with the business when it was time to actually kind of go from that handshake agreement to more of a, of a legal contract.

And if we had done that at the very beginning and ironed out a lot of those details, we could have avoided some really challenging conversations. And so the the lesson learned here was really there’s a lot of scenarios in life where you need to get it in writing. And it’s not just for for startup opportunities. It’s not just young kids coming out of college.

I mean, we we’ve worked with a ton of businesses and we see stuff like this all the time where, a business owner will promise a sales rep a certain bonus, or, or a business owner will say, well, well, hey, if you actually work hard for the next couple of years, I’ll give you some equity. And the really the reality is, a lot of times those don’t turn out the way both parties interpret them.

So. So I really think the lesson that I learned was as, as early as you can in a process, try and get it in writing. Lawyers really aren’t, at the end of the day, as expensive as as you may think they are. They can end up saving you a lot of heartache and a lot of time and energy.

And so they play a very pivotal role in, in a lot of contract building opportunities. So, that was the lesson that I learned many, many years ago. Very good. So that experience shaped how you approach structure and agreements from the beginning. John, I know that you went through something similar, but at a much bigger scale. So let’s talk about what happened with that major client project.

Yeah, I think unfortunately, all of us in the in the business world and maybe in life in general kind of learned this lesson similar to Matt, is, you know, if you can’t manage and agree on expectations up front, there’s no way you’re going to agree to them on the back end. Nothing good’s going to happen after that.

And so kind of dealing with the pain of managing expectations upfront, dealing with the pain of dealing with it on the back end is is exponential and astronomical and can save you a lot of heartache. Yeah. My scenario I was, young in my career. It was the early 2000s, and I’d worked my way up within the company, and I was leading, 1 to 1 of our largest accounts.

It was a fortune 500 company. It was a multi-million dollar account for us, and we weren’t that big of a company. So it was a big deal back in those days. And so happens often in financial services, mergers and acquisitions or common banks or obviously buying banks and rolling them up. But that was really happening back then. So our client had acquired another bank.

It was called a merger, really wasn’t. There really is never just a pure merger. It was more of an acquisition. And our client was winning all of the systems and the key roles within the company, which was obviously very good for us because that’s where our relationships were. Well, we were part of a lot of the transformational deals, system implementations that were taking place, for the merger.

And one of the big ones was, the point of sale system or the teller system for, for the bank. And my new client was from the bank that was being acquired and didn’t really have a lot of, you know, relationship with, with this person. And so we took it over and took on this project. It was high visibility, super important.

Lots of money for my company. Very, very challenging. Well, as with most implementations around these kinds of things, we got into a bit of a situation where we were behind schedule. Things weren’t progressing as well as we wanted them to. Not all of that was our fault, honestly, a lot of it because of the complexity of the integrations and things like that or other third parties or or issues within the the client themselves hitting their deadlines.

But we were fully accountable for it. And I had a new relationship here. And so what I agreed to do was we’re just going to jump in and solve the problems. We’re going to hit the deadlines, we’re going to make it happen, and we’ll settle up on the back end. We put in heroic efforts, crazy workweeks, crazy work days, crazy amount of extra people and extra resources on the project, and we end up making that person look really, really good.

Well, when it was time to settle up on the back end, he didn’t really honor our gentleman’s agreement, so to speak, and I was left with dealing with all the extra costs. And it was a substantial amount of money that I ended up losing. Our company. And obviously, you know, in hindsight, that was very, very stupid of me.

But my intentions were really good. And in my heart, I was doing the right thing. And I just learned so many business lessons from that. And the fact that, not that you shouldn’t always do the right thing, that’s always the case. But as you’re doing the right things, you need to get things documented. You need to agree on what’s going to happen and how it’s going to work so that you know you’re not left high and dry at the end of the day, potentially saving the day and being left out of these opportunities.

My I was extremely naive in that relationship as well because I fully didn’t understand that person’s motives. That person was all about just creating, a win for themselves, to be able to be promoted into some of these new positions that were going to take place. And that’s not being judgmental of that person. I understand what they were trying to do, because frankly, when these mergers and acquisitions happen, everybody’s jobs are on the line and this person’s fighting for their livelihood.

And so they were much more incented per se around making sure they elevated themselves versus making sure one of their vendors are paid appropriately and stuff like that. So just like Matt, kind of outlined my man worked out a lot, you know, sounds like way worse on the backside. And it’s a miracle that I wasn’t fired. It’s a miracle that I survived all of that, just to be honest with you.

But I never forgot it. And so now I’m very dogmatic around, okay, if this is going to be our agreement, let’s document that agreement. Let’s document the outcomes, the costs, the fees, what’s going to happen. And if you can’t come to that agreement, you’re definitely not going to come to that agreement after the fact. And so and, you know, in our world we always get change orders on we have everything documented because I want to exceed all expectations.

And if those expectations aren’t documented, you’re not going to win. At the end of the day, you’re not going to win from an expectation standpoint. You’re not going to win from a client satisfaction standpoint, and you’re definitely not going to win from a financial stamp. Thanks, John. So two hard lessons there. But the same takeaway don’t rely on memory or goodwill.

You’ve got to build in structure. So let’s let’s shift gears for a second. I’ve also heard you mentioned a time when a hiring decision exposed how little you knew about HR law. So what was the situation there, Sam? This is one of those those recruitment, interactions that kind of lives in infamy in my mind a little bit, it just it’s kind of cringe worthy with me when I start thinking about, this scenario.

But this was many, many years ago when when I started interviewing. And I love the recruitment process. There’s nothing more fun than the recruitment process and getting to know people. And so just just love that process. But I can be a little too curious sometimes. And, and I remember this one scenario where, I took a gentleman out to lunch and, and ended up asking every question under the sun that you are not supposed to ask somebody in an interview process.

I had good intentions. But honestly, every question that I ask got shut down. It turned out to be one of the most awkward, awkward interviews I’ve ever had in my career. And, you know, it goes to say we we didn’t we didn’t win win over this individual. They did not end up coming to work for us.

And it was probably my fault, to be honest with you. I made I made the interview probably way more uncomfortable than it needed to be. But it just goes to show we we talk with a lot of businesses and, and recruitment is a part of every single company. And, and one thing that happens a lot of times is a CEO will will ask just somebody random in the company to, hey, interview this person or step into the process or get to know them.

And the reality is, is you can’t be you can’t be too legalistic with how you approach interviewing you. You do have to have a good heart and good intentions, but the people that you have involved in the recruitment process need to know, what you can ask, what you can ask. They they need to be up to speed on, especially in your state.

Know what’s going on in that state, know know what you can and can’t talk about. And so very early on, I realized I needed to spend some start some time studying some some, some H.R. Law to figure out, the limits of what you can and can’t do to get to know people in that interview process. It’s an absolute minefield.

And so, yeah, it’s definitely worth keeping up to date with those things. I want to bring you in here because I think you’ve got a story that pass perfectly with that. So it was early in your career during a job interview, and it started with a question that you probably wouldn’t ask today. Yeah, absolutely. So, so this, it pairs well with Matt in that I was really early in my career in the company that I was working with, had a pretty involved, a pretty intense hiring process.

There were multiple interviews. There was a behavior and aptitude assessment. So the candidate went through an extensive process, and then at the end, they would get to meet with a few people from the team that they were going to be working with. So this candidate had gone through this long process, and they were finally at that last step.

And I was part of that small team that they were going to get to meet with. And so the the candidate comes in, we get into this cool little conference room. We’re having a good conversation. It’s going well. It seems like it’s a good culture fit, and there’s just a lull in the conversation for a moment. And for some reason, I thought, you know, it’d be a fun way to get to know this guy.

I’m going to ask him to tell me his favorite joke. Well, he did, and Sam, it was one of the foulest, most offensive jokes I have ever heard. And everybody in the room went dead. Silence. So we just had to kind of actually get through it together. And as soon as the candidate left, all of us who went to H.R. were like, hey, that is not going to be a fit.

But here’s the problem that Matt was just speaking to is that I didn’t know that you can’t just make up questions as you go in the interview process, and it turns out that we actually gotten some serious, complicated issues. But, because that candidate filed some legal complaints against us and, and our process all because my favorite joke question.

So, so the lesson here, Sam, one is, I need to be a little bit more careful not, just think on the cuff. The second is that even though I had good intentions, it didn’t it didn’t project well on the company. And ultimately, even though I had good intentions, I was just having a try to have a good conversation.

It really put the company at risk and ultimately cost the company, a lot of time and money. And so what you can do to mitigate that is exactly what Matt was just speaking to. It’s prepare your team well, provide them the knowledge so they can have those conversations effectively, and put process around it. You know, I look both of those stories because they’re funny in hindsight, but they’re real.

So when you’re early on in your leadership journey, you know, you don’t always know what to do because you don’t know what you don’t know. And sometimes that catches up with you. So, John, let’s come back to you. You know, you had a HR situation that wasn’t about legal compliance. Can you talk us through that? Yeah, absolutely. It’s kind of the other end of the spectrum here.

I was raised and taught in an environment where we had very rigorous HR rules, almost too rigorous. I always joke a lot of times your lawyer and your legal team is very, very important. But if it was up to them, nobody would get out of bed in the morning. Right? It’s just too risky. And so you have to balance common sense, your values, and really intentionally identify the amount of risk you’re going to take on.

Because, yeah, you you want to follow the law, you want to do the right thing. But we’re human beings and we need to treat people as human beings. And you’re always assuming some level of risk. So in my scenario, I was I was leading a team and, one of my employees who was leading our customer support group had been there a few years.

We were really close. We’re really good friends. But he was always it wasn’t always. Every 3 to 4 months he’d have these emotional outbursts. He would just get super stressed out and kind of go off the deep end a little bit. And if you’ve ever dealt with a public, you can probably relate to that. So I had I had a lot of empathy for him and what was going on.

Well, it it came to a head one day he jumped in my office just irate and, you know, just just out of control. And my heart was I wanted the best for him and I wanted to do the right thing. I was caught up in a bit of the emotion of everything that was going on, but I basically said to him, I was like, look, man, you’re miserable.

This job is not worth your your mental health. Going away. And, I think it’s, you know, do you want to quit? I mean, let’s find a better role for you. I’ll support you or whatever. And it kind of just got back and forth to the point where I basically had to let him go. And because I had to make that decision for him, he was miserable.

He was not in a good place. He needed to find something different. And so and that heated conversation, I let him go. Well, my previous training based on, you know, you do things by the book and that kind of stuff was, well, a dismiss employee. You don’t let them walk around the building, us court them out, all that kind of stuff.

So we grabbed a box. I walked him over to his desk. We had a very open office environment, so everybody was watching. I stayed with him the whole time of the box, made him unpack. I mean, you know, take up all his belongings and escorted him out the door, which from a legal perspective or a HR handbook perspective is probably by the book.

And the thing you’re supposed to do here. All right. It’s one of the things I regret most as a, as a business leader, as a leader in general, because I did not treat that person as a person. He was a friend. He was a valued employee. Yes. He needed to leave. That was the right decision for him and for the company.

But I lost all humanity and just was following things by the book and it was extremely embarrassing for him. It was it was dehumanizing. To him, there was no risk of him going rogue, doing anything crazy. All of those kinds of things. And it just, you know, in hindsight, it reminded me, is to never value these rules and regulations over people.

There is a balance there and is kind of Chad mad at both alluded to. You need to have guardrails in place. You you have rules that align with your culture and value that, define the appropriate level of risk you want to take on or around the rules and the law and all that kind of stuff. I would never advocate violating the law.

I’m not saying that, but I’m saying there is a lot of gray areas that come along with that. And we’re assuming risk every day as business leaders. And never again will I do something like that. Where I’m just trying to not get in trouble from a legal perspective, and I devalue a human being. That means a lot to me.

And unfortunately, I’ve never talked to that guy since, and I don’t blame him. I wouldn’t talk to me either. And so that was a really good lesson for me to learn to like. Okay. Yeah, I like process, I like systems, I like keeping things in order. I don’t want to do anything wrong. But if it comes down to me doing something wrong and valuing a human being that I care about and a team member that I care about, I’m always going to on the side of taking care of that person versus treating them according to maybe what a handbook says or the law says.

I’m willing to take on that. So I think there’s a balance there. And I think, most importantly, business leaders need to have intentionality. They need to train their team on those gray areas so that they know what the guardrails are. And because at the end of the day, we’re making decisions, and we want to make the right decisions, but we need a playbook to follow and we need some guidelines to follow.

Yeah, that’s such a powerful contrast. We’ve talked about putting systems in place to protect the business, but sometimes the safeguard is emotional intelligence. Matt, I know that you had to learn that too, especially in how you handle tough conversations. Yeah, kind of piggybacking on, everything that John just said. Sometimes business can get very emotional. We’re all we’re all very passionate people.

And it can get emotional sometimes. And sometimes there’s that perfect storm where everything personally and everything professionally just feels like it lines up and and your cup runs over. And so there’s just this there was a scenario with one of our team members that I just really regret how I handled, this was a number of years ago where, otherwise a really good team member, a very talented individual, came to me with a few things that that violated our employee handbook.

And, and then, you know, my, my, my emotions ran high, and I jumped immediately into a virtual call with this, with this team member. I mean, within seconds. Got him on the line. Just just felt like I had to squash the issue immediately. And in hindsight, there was there was nothing two time sensitive about it. There was no reason I had to solve that problem in the next five minutes.

And so I just learned this lesson, man, do not enter a conversation really in life, but definitely in business. But don’t enter a conversation when you find yourself in a heightened state, an angry state, an emotional state. Usually what you need to do is take a pause. You need to take a few minutes, maybe even take the night and sleep on it.

We’ve done that quite a bit. And and as a leadership team, we hold each other accountable. I know about all the guys on the call you’re of have given me wise advice and different scenarios. But what I would just encourage a lot of the business leaders out there to do is there are going to be moments where you’re frustrated with your team, there’s going to be moments you’re frustrated, with with family or or kids or significant others.

You’re going to find yourself frustrated. And what I would just encourage people to do is take a pause and try not to enter that conversation angry. So thanks, Matt. So we’ve talked about guardrails around contracts hiring and communication. So let’s let’s now shift our operations to Chad. I know you’ve got a story about a time you get to go the extra mile, but actually ended up bringing the company to a halt.

So tell us what happened here. Yeah. Sam, the there seems to be a theme, with my stories, and it’s it’s that I’m trying real hard. But I’m still messing things up. So again, this was early in my career, and I was working in customer support in the company that I was at. They gave me production access to their database.

It’s a I’m in support. I’ve got full access to the database. And what this allowed me to do was move fast. And so when customers would call in, I could respond quickly. I was hyper responsive to emails and chats because I could get in, I could look around, I could, kind of do some investigation on my own.

And, and that worked well during the day. But I’m a bit of a hustler. And so I would also work at night. So one night, we had received this email during the day that we had this client pretty strategic, pretty large client that wanted this big data export. And so I thought, all right, here’s my chance.

I’m going to run this huge export job that’s going to take hours to complete. I’m gonna go ahead and start it tonight, and I’m going to let it run for a while, and then it’ll be ready for me in the morning so that I can ship it off to the client first thing in the morning. And, you know, put my cable because I’m the hero.

So I kicked it off, and it it ran. And I like it worked on some other things. I’ll check back on it. It continued to run. I did a few more things and it continued to run. And it was it was super late, like there’s nobody at this office. And so I’m thinking, all right, this job still running, but it’s not going to harm anyone.

And I’m going to be the first person here in the morning. So I’ll just come back in, make sure the job completed. Well, and send it out. Well, this was back before ChatGPT. And so, like, the only way you could learn things was through books. And at this point, I had only read like Harry Potter. So I didn’t know that what I was doing was really missing some stuff.

So the next morning, I pull into the parking lot, and normally when I get there, there’s maybe like 1 or 2 cars, but it’s packed. And so I get in the elevator, I go up to our floor, I step out onto the floor, and Sam, there is a row of engineers that I have never seen there in the mornings before, and there are headphones on and and a heads down and I’ll walk around their row tomorrow.

And the director of engineering is standing there at my desk waiting for me. And he said, Chad. Oh, and this is hard to even remember this. He said, you ran a job last night that prevented all of our monthly processes from running the entire system is down for all of our clients, and I had to call the entire engineering team in early to run the jobs that were supposed to run last night manually to get the system back up for our clients.

And as he walked away, he kind of looked over his shoulder and he’s like, just so you know, you no longer have access to production.

And advance, Sam, it’s done. I was I was ashamed and I had to sit there the rest of the day knowing what I had done. Luckily they they forgave me. They didn’t fire me on the spot. And I was able to learn a couple lessons from that. And one of them, in retrospect, looking back at it, was and that company was just in a hypergrowth stage.

And so when they were a small company, when it was mainly just engineers, there were like 10 or 15 people, everyone could have access to everything because they all had the contacts, techs, the knowledge, the education, the experience to know, hey, if you do this thing, it’s going to affect these other things. Well, I didn’t have that knowledge.

I hadn’t been there. I was one of those hires that they brought in to grow the company. And so that’s really where I learned this lesson about guardrails, like you said, is that if you’re going to scale a company, well, you’re going to have to put guardrails in place to enable your teams to be able to work in safe ways.

Yeah, I think everyone with a technical background just cringed a little, just a little bit. But again, the message is clear, right? Just because someone’s smart and hungry, it doesn’t mean that they should have full access. Safeguards really do matter, especially as companies grow. So Chad, I’ve also heard you say before that one of the hardest things for businesses is the shift, the experience when growing from a small business to a mid-sized business.

So can you share what you’ve seen during those times? Yes. And it really highlighted it that night, looking back that you can see it when, when you’re small, there’s flexibility. And that’s really where the magic of being a small company is, is everybody can get their hands and they all wear multiple hats. You do what has to be done to get the work done, and that works for a while.

But as you grow, that same flexibility really becomes a liability because the decisions get bigger. They’re they have larger implication. The stakes are higher and that just get it done type of mindset and attitude. Well, it can do things like I did and bring the system down. Or bring down relationships. Right. And so you’ve got to have that shift when you’re growing from a small business into a more mature, a more professional business, you’ve got to have clearer processes, clear roles, clear definition, and really guardrails, guardrails that will protect your business, but also protect those new people that you’re bringing on board, allowing them in an environment to have the education, the exposure, the

experience they need to be able to succeed. So that’s really just kind of one takeaway there is as you grow, you’ve got to take a moment to to work outside of the business and work on the business instead of working in the business. And when you’re working on the business, what you’re working on is, how are we going to grow this thing?

How are we going to give new people the experience, exposure, the tooling and the guardrails they need to do well. So whether it’s legal, emotional or operational, today’s stories are all pointing in the same direction. Safeguards don’t slow you down. They keep you business alive, your people protected, and your future intact. So before we wrap up, I want to ask each of you one thing how has failure shaped who you are today as a leader or as a person?

I’ll go first. I’ll jump in there. When I reflect on my life, usually when I get into the issues, it’s because I’m hurrying. And so there’s a big difference between moving quickly and hurrying. When you get into this state where you find yourself hurrying, you miss things. You make mistakes, you you cause issues. And so I guess the the as I reflect the, the failures that I have had kind of taught me just to slow down, and, and make very careful decisions.

I’ll jump in. I’ll tell you, Sam, my failures have made me empathetic, for new team members. Because I know what it’s like to not know what you don’t know. So now I have this opportunity as a leader to try and give my teams the context, the training and the guardrails that they need to succeed. Yes. And I think for me, I’ve learned to not fear failure.

Early on in my career. I was scared to death of messing up, and I learned I’m going to mess up even if I’m scared of it or not. And so failure is really taught me. You want to find additional core values are so important because it it forms the foundation of decision making. And so it’s it’s less about the rules and those kinds of things.

It’s, it’s why are you creating those rules and do they align with your core values. So your your values define who you are, not your mistakes. Your your feelings and emotions will mislead you. And so your values must align with your processes. And we talked about before consistency compounds. And so even if you’re wrong or doing something the wrong way, if you’re doing it consistently, you’re able to fix it able to learn from it, able to improve from it.

So you must make principal based decisions that are tied to your value. And then that gives you the freedom to fail without regret, because once again, you’re going to make you’re going to make mistakes. But if you’re not making mistakes, you’re probably not trying hard enough. You’re probably not growing enough. And so you need to push that boundary to stay aligned to who you really are, because life and business are going to throw us a ton of curveballs.

And often you can’t control your circumstances, but you can pre decide how you’re going to act or how you’re going to respond, or what you’re going to do when that situation arises. As we’ve talked about with so many of these lessons, it was us reacting that’s not being prepared. It’s not knowing what to do in that situation that really got us in trouble.

It wasn’t the rules, it wasn’t our intentions or any of those kinds of things. So once again, I’m okay failing if I’m living out my core values and the social situation just didn’t work out, I’m not okay reacting to the situation and not being prepared for it. That’s when I have regrets. That’s when bad things happen. That’s when I let the emotions get the best of me.

And that’s not okay. Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much guys. Well, finally, we always like to ask our guests if there’s a quote or a phrase that’s meant a lot to you in your life or your leadership journey. So do you guys have something you want to share today? Oh, I want to go first on this one.

I love this quote from, Lee Cockrell. Managerial skills are absolutely necessary for getting results, but they aren’t enough to drive excellence. Excellence requires leadership and insight, and that is stuck with me because technical skills like management skills can get things done. But leadership skills make things better. Leadership skills like identifying and learning from and sharing failures makes things better.

Well, Sam, I thought I had one and I’m going to say two now because, I thought of one during, this conversation that I think is really appropriate here because I think at the end of the day, so much of what we’re talking about is risk management. And so much of the failures that are really bad are is when we didn’t manage risk appropriately or we weren’t intentional about the risks that was the decision resulted in.

So Jeff Bezos has a great quote. It’s kind of the Amazon philosophy. It’s one of their management tenets. He says that most decisions are two way doors. If you make the wrong decision, it’s a two way door. Pick a door, walk through it, and then spend a little time there. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, you can come back in and pick another door for two way door type decisions.

You can take on more risks because you’re not. The results or the consequences of those decisions are as severe as a one way door. And you go through a one way door. There’s no way out, and you got to deal with whatever’s going on. And so as you’re defining your processes and systems, you got to think about, you know, let’s major let’s not major on the minors.

Let’s, let’s, let’s put the appropriate processes in place to assume the appropriate risk that we’re okay with. So we’re intentional about it. And then you iterate those and evolve those as you grow. As Chad talked about, as you grow, you’re going to have to add more processes and systems, and you may have to adjust your risk profile as you do, because you’re now you have more to lose, and there’s more consequences to the decisions that are being made.

And then, of course, the great Yoda said, the greatest teacher failure is and I think, you know, you only really lose when you’re not learning from your mistakes, you’re not growing, you’re not getting better. And so I think the worst thing that can happen is you make a mistake no matter how big it is, that you don’t learn from it and improve from it and get better from it.

So John, quote Yoda and I’m going to quote John, I’ll keep this. I’ll keep this short and sweet. For ten years I’ve heard John’s repeat this, this quote, to myself and the company. And he says there’s two ways to do things the right way. And again, so let’s just make sure we’re we’re making the right decision and doing it the right way the first time.

Awesome. John Mark chat. It’s been great to have you on the podcast today. Well, thanks for joining us on the Fast Slow Motion Podcast. To our listeners, we hope that you found encouragement in these stories. We know that failure is not final and what you learn from it can actually help you to build a better business. To hear more episodes and stories like this one.

Visit fast slowmotion.com/podcast. Or you can subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, if you’ve got a question or a topic that you want us to explore, you can let us know at fastslow motion.com/podcastfeedback and we’ll see you next time.